Conversing my fellow atheist: Creation Manner

The thirteenth lesson of the third debate with atheists

Professor Sheikh: Ahmed Abdo Awad

Edited and translated by: Moraad Alsangary

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Say! Walk on earth and see how the universe began Then Allah originates the last genesis Verily Allah able to do all things

قل سيروا في الأرض  فانظروا كيف بدأ الخلق ثم ينشأ النشأة الآخرة إن الله على كل شئ قدير

Introduction

مقدمة

In the name of Allah; the most merciful; the most gracious. Thankfulness be to the lord of mankind; numerous thanks endless thanks provided his consent. Peace and prayers be upon whom his Lord taught him best and knew his lord best. May Allah's peace and prayers be upon him and his family and honored companions.

This is the thirteenth lesson about the third debate between me and atheists. As you noticed through the last lessons, there were a big number of the invalid illusions. They insist on their illusions and I am insisting on my faith and on my creed which I am affiliated to in that beautiful law of Islam. I try to be kind with those atheists as Islam ordered us to be tender with them.

Challenge between me and my fellow atheist starts

و بدأ التحدي بيني و بين صديقي الملحد

My dear viewers! My fellow devoted himself to study what Muslims said. He said that he would overcome me and take what the scholars of Islamic law said as examples. I personally like fierce debates in which I found myself being challenged. I depend on The Almighty lord in order to be victorious. I am now proving group of facts and my fellow atheists is trying to prove their opposites.

Darwin took Evolution from Muslim scholars

داروين أخذ نظرية التطور عن علماء مسلمين

 The first issue that I previously discussed is evolution. My fellow knows well that his master; Darwin; the owner of Darwinian modern theory; the loser student of medicine, changed his study of medicine to the study theology and clergy. I am addressing my fellow and he knows well that I am right. It was cleared that two thirds of his researches were counterfeiting. My fellow atheist said to me

Fellow Atheist: "Do you make fun of Darwin or you make fun of the scholars of Islamic sects Like Ibn Maskaweah in the Islamic philosophy?

I agreed

Fellow Atheist:  and the sect of Safa Brothers also in the Islamic philosophy.

 I also agreed.

He continued mentioning famous philosophic Islamic streams. He also mentioned Ibn Khaldoun. The atheist said that when he read their books, he found them saying the same thing. He chose big figures. Maskaweah was a big Arabian and Islamic philosopher. "Safaa Brothers" was a very profound philosophic and historic sect. Ibn Khaldoun is a very distinguished professor. They said that the universe had undergone evolution. Nothing remained on its original state. The three professors said that: The evolution started from solid state to plants life, then to animals' world to human world to the world of angels. My fellow aroused a very serious issue. He said that Muslim professors confirmed the spontaneity things works with. This means that mountains turn into plants, plants to animals, worms into so and so, and then animals to humans and humans turn into angels, angels turns into so and so. This is what Ibn Khaldoun hinted and repeated by Safaa Brothers and Ibn Maskaweah. He assumed that this can help the European theory that the universe begins with the state of evolution and this evolution came with the creation of humans on earth. They commented on the verse: "Then He completed his creation and blow in him from His soul". Then the atheist said " Does the completion of creation mean that it wasn't perfect?"

Egyptian Professor claims that prophet Adam came from a series of evoloution

أستاذ في دار العلوم يزعم أن سيدنا آدم أتى من سلسلة من التطورات

I said that only a deceased professor in "Knowledge House College" called for that. He wrote a book titled: "father Adam". He said that Adam came from a series of evolutions of uncompleted creation and Allah remained tries and tries. He argues me with what the Muslim scholars said According to what prof. Daramee said: Allah remained trying and trying till He perfected the visage of Adam with the valid potent manner

No one can have his pretext against God even Muslim scholars

ليس هناك أحد حجة على الله بما فيهم العلماء المسلمين أنفسهم

We are still talking about the issue of believing in God, the issue of existence, the issue of Allah. We know what goes on their mind. We want both of us to reach a compromise admitting to Allah with what He deserves. There shouldn't be any pretexts concerning nations except with what they agreed upon. We took Shakespeare from the European culture. He is a great poet. Is he an angel? Einstein, Newton. We proved Darwin's lie, counterfeiting and deception.  I said that in many cases that scholar's opinion or the researcher or the professor's one can be a pretext against him nobody else. No one can have his pretext against God. The Almighty has his pretext against everybody. I said to him that Darwin is related to the European culture. He agreed. I said that all his researches were counterfeiting. He kept silent and lowered his head. I said "Does this mean that all the Europeans are counterfeiters?" Are they all counterfeiting countries? He said "No". With all my respect to Ibn Khaldoun or Bin Maskaweah or Safa Brothers, If they are all wronged, they would bear their mistakes, not God He agreed

We cannot depend on the figures of certain thought to set up a thought

لا يمكننا الإعتماد على رموز فكر معين لكي تنشأ فكراً جديداً

He argued with me that I proved that we cannot depend on the figures of certain thought to set up a thought that shock people but the theory that they are calling for still needs elaboration.  Why did Ibn Maskaweah and Safa Brother believe in evolution theory? They must have had materialistic and mental evidences that make them believe in that. I respect him when he comes with such nice talk. I admire him when we reach to a point of mutual understanding. You can't have pretexts against Allah. What Muslim scholars said is invalid. It's my opinion.  It is not the atheist fellow opinion.  It's me who says this confidently, all what the three said about Allah is invalid.

Atheists usually justify their atheism by perplexity of some Muslim scholars

عادة ما يبرر أهل الكفر كفرهم بتذبذب بعض علماء المسلمين

My fellow atheist is still arguing that Muslims have one source of knowledge.  I accepted. He meant by this Quran and prophet's regulations. He found that Imam Alsouty , the big and the genius legal scientist said in interpreting the holy verse about earth "How was the earth paved" that the earth is a surface.  He said that Ibn Hazem in his book "discriminating between sects and doctrines" got sick of that. He got lost. He asked me if I were pleased with the perplexity within your scholars.

Pretexts should be agreed upon views not individual ones

الاستدلال لابد أن تكون من الآراء المتفق عليها و ليس من الأراء الشاذة

We do not basically take quranic opinions from what the scholars have said. I am telling you my dear that no one can have pretexts against Allah. We have interpretations like Ibn Kathear's books and others full of Israeli stories .Israeli stories do not necessary mean Jewish Israeli stories. They mean false legendary stories. I asked him if he wanted to take valid evidences he should take agreed upon opinions by most of our scholars.  I advised him not take individual opinions and build on them and not to take Alsouty and Ibn Khaldoun as  evidences.

In conversing atheists, you should respect their cultures and delay Quran evidences

في الحوار مع الملاحدة لابد أن تحترم ثقافتهم و تؤجل الاستشهاد بالأدلة القرآنية

I respect his culture till now. I have not represented any evidence from Quran or the Sunah. I haven't given examples from Sunah or Quran chapters. I am committed to his curriculum. I asked him not to generalize what Alsouty, Ibn Maskaweah, Ibn Hazem and others said as certain evidences to call for certain theory. If he wants to argue me, he should bring the agreed upon opinions by scholars. He nodded "Yes"

How can Adam perfection be a controversial issue?

الجدل حول الآية الكريمة" ثم سواه"

I warn him for the second time. He is approaching red lines. He are trying to put me in an awkward situation tonight, for the second time, He has wronged a big intellectual mistake. Atheists try to take disagreed upon opinions to prove a certain fact about the "Allah's incapability", I quote. That is what they want to reach. Let's take a look at the verse:" Then He perfected Adam and blow in him from His soul". What is meant by perfection?! He did a counter attack. They argue that perfection means that Allah was trying. "How can God try things", God forbid to try.

Talking about Allah is not like talking about people

الحديث عن الله ليس مثل الحديث عن البشر

I asked him not to interfere between us as scholars. It is none of his business I am answering my great scholars none of his business. To my viewers all over the world, we can answer with the language of Quran to answer any allegation. Ask 5000 of them about the meaning of "perfected him" in the verse, the example of completing the cooking of kidney beans.  It hasn't been cooked yet. Why hasn't it been cooked? Allah is the greatest. He is starting to make people convinced with the issue of incapability. Allah is the greatest. Remember that talking about Allah is not like talking about people

 

Allah is the doer of actions. God forbid to try.

الله فاعل و حاشاه أن يجرب

A professor used to have many PhDs in Islamic law and teach in the faculty of knowledge couldn't understand the meaning of completing his creation. The atheist said so, come on, how couldn’t he know the meaning of the verse?  Isn't he a Muslim like you? Is he a caller for Allah like you? How can he put the Almighty in this situation?! I Allah is the doer of actions. God forbid to try. If we made mistakes regarding our Lord, they are undelibrate faults we were punished with them. He said he that he didn't understand what I said.

Some scholars influence with translated books that come to them from India

تأثر بعض علماء المسلمين بالكتب المترجمة التي أتت من الهند

You shouldn't understand certain things, because they are difficult for you. Every concept advocates for the incapability of Allah and was promoted by some of our Muslim scholars like Ibn Maskaweah's calling that the universe has developed from mountain to plants to animals to humans. I am sorry to say that this is nonsense. How can these Muslim scholars be genuine?! These scholars used to be influenced with translated books that come to them from India especially they came in ages when cultures were mingled when the foreign and Latin influence in our culture.

Ibn Khaldoun  set up evolution theory 600 years before Darwin but he was a sociologist

ارسى ابن خلدون نظرية التطور 600 عام قبل داروين و لكنه كان عالم اجتماع

 My fellow said that Darwin took the theory of evolution from the Arabs themselves.  People knew the theory of evolution thanks the Arabs.  He addresses me that in the classification of Ibn Khaldoun of living creatures, didn't he say that there are some ultra-kinds monkeys are amongst them which can think nearly like human. I agreed. He concluded that Ibn Khaldoun acknowledges that the origin of human is so and so 600 years before Darwin theory. I said to him that Ibn Khaldoun didn't mean to prove that. He didn't mean to say what you are saying. Ibn Khaldoun actually said that. He did his best doing that. He talked about the classifications of animals and how can they develop their functions. He talked about sociology. Ibn Khaldoun is not a professor of Islamic law. He is a sociologist. He actually said so but he didn't mean to set up a legal theory. He said nothing about Islamic legislation.

Me: Try to differentiate between sociology and the deductions about the origin of universe, about Allah.

Atheists trying to prove that Muslim scholars called for what Darwin called for

الملاحدة دائماً ما يحاولون إثبات أن علماء المسلمين كانوا ينادون بما نادى يه داروين

 He agreed. I thanked God he understood. He begins to change his mind about the scholars whom he mentioned their names. Darwin never got benefited from them and never took the Arabic opinion in the issue of evolution. Didn't he shock the humanity with these theories?  He shocked it with lie. Honestly the discussion tonight reaches its peak. My fellow tries to prove that Muslim scholars called for what Darwin called for. We underestimate the European culture that called for evolution. Though we were the ones who innovated it.

He wanted to embarrass me and I want him to embrace Islam

هو يحاول أن يحرجني و انا أحاول أن يعتنق الإسلام

He asked me if I knew Amalah and Kamalah. I answered him positively. He asked me" tell your viewers about them and expose yourself before them".  I said that I would not talk tonight. I said that it's me who choose the time to speak about them. We will talk about them in the suitable time because he thought that "Amalah and Kamalah" are evidences of the theory of evolution and the universe developed naturally and he thought that this evolution means that the universe doesn't need for a god. He wants to make millions of people got lost by this talk.

Me: I do not want to beat you. I want you to embrace Islam and make many of non-Muslim viewers to believe in God.

Fellow Atheist: The universe is based on the unity of creation. It begins from the atom to the galaxy according to the same coordination and the same symmetry. As long as the universe has the same coordination and symmetry, why then it need for a God.

He is trying to give me certain evidences thinking that I will be convinced then he will be the winner.

A word can lead to disbelief and a word can lead to belief

كلمة واحدة ممكن أن تؤدي إلى الكفر و كلمة ممكن أن تؤدي إلى الإيمان

He criticized my fanaticism about differentiating between creation and creator. The creator exists in our belief. Choosing suitable terms is very important any word of mine can lead to either disbelief or belief. My fellow understands me very well. I argue with him fiercely in some verbal points. A word can lead to disbelief and a word can lead to belief

When you speak with atheists you should absorb their tension

في حديثك مع الملاحدة لابد أن تمتص غضبهم

The theory of the unity of creation or unity of universe was made by these atheists.  A professor in the faculty of science discussed it with me seven years ago.  She said that the universe does not need a god. "You are fanatic people ", She said. You are fanatic with religion, legislation, Quran and Sunah. You are lunatics with religion .The universe does not need all these things. The universe is organized in its life and viability and can give it energy, life and vividness, movement and life. She said to me what God could do after creation. Frankly speaking I wouldn't prefer to reply when I find somebody goes in the wrong way I would rather to absorb his tension then I start to catch him up in the clean water not in the dirty water that they like us to fall in. They used to insult us. She actually said more than that the universe is not in need for so and so and it is harmonious.  Everything knows where to go how it starts and how it will end.

Knocking up policy does not suit talking about God or monotheism

سياسة الضربة القاضية لا تناسب الحديث عن وحدانية الله

My fellow raised his head and wanted to know what I had told her. I am presenting global evidence- based on facts. She is trying to knock me out with facts. He asked" Are you in a wrestling match. She is showering me with evidences in order to shut me up at the end thinking when I see how strong her evidences are, I will give up. Knocking up policy does not suit talking about God or monotheism.  Raise up an issue to discuss. Give me different evidence of mine and with all my senses I will prove the correct one. The issue is that many students of sciences who study sciences like physics, chemistry, atom so on so forth, If they hadn't been believers, , the minds of some of them would have gone behind limits. He spent most of his time in the laboratory. Some of them studied in Germany and Japan. Belief is the base as science calls for belief

Allah is the maker of evidence based on creed theory

نظرية العقيدة التي تبني على الدليل تعزى إلى الله ذاته

I am not against evidence based on creed. I am calling for it. But what is meant buy evidence?! I also believe in reason based on creed. But who makes reasons? Allah not you. Evidences come from him. Does he have any associating partner? Didn't I escort you around whole world for a year roaming and roaming and finally asked you" Did you find a universe or dominion other than His?" and a god other than Him? and you kept silent Have you forgotten?

Demolishing false thought increases faith

هدم الأفكار الخاطئة يزيد الإيمان

Allah's potency is magnifying. My viewers' faith and mine increases when I demolish your thoughts. The more I demolish a concept of you, the more we acquire more faith and love to Allah.

Atheists claim that the universe does not need for a God

الملاحدة يزعمون أن الكون ليس بحاجة إلى إله

 But he criticized my delay in answering him and not responding the professor who insulted me. I said to him that I didn't care of her insults. I am apt to insults. She and thousands like her from the Europeans and foreign scientists insisting that the universe starts from atom to the galaxy, from the smallest to the biggest thing. It is considered to be one sole harmonic unity. "It does not need for a god as they were structurally built", I quote. When the sun rises, the moon disappears. Tide happens only when the moon appears. They present million evidences proving their theory stressing the unity of existence or creation or universe. The universe began harmonic and will end up harmonic. On the suitable time the energy will disappear. The unity of universe or the unity of creation is due to its harmonious congeniality and consistency. Everything in the universe will perform its job without clashing to each other. It doesn't need a god If It does need for a god, He is motivating for creating the universe then his role vanishes

The theory of the Consistency of Universe is not always true

نظرية تناسق الكون ليست دائماً صحيحة

I used to respond to this talk easily when I was in the university more than 35 years ago. Now it is so easy to respond to it with the least effort .Where are all of these?!

Me: Don't you live in universe?! Any divine will can paralyze it. A plane takes off from Washington DC airport at 10:05. Wake up my friend! Don't sleep!

He said that he was still concentrating. Passengers went to the airport and laid down the ground. By the way, my friend was among them. They stayed there for three days. The plane didn't take off. I asked him why. Hurricanes and storms were his answer. This confirms that the universe is harmonious. The Creator Lord proves your incapability. My answer was that these hurricanes and storms are not blowing simultaneously in certain circumstances. Fire held up automatically in some forest for more than two or three months and destroys the economy of entire countries.

Me: Where is the amazing consistency my fellow? You tried to exterminate rats in certain province of you in USA. You give them poison and they were already died.  Fiercest reptiles appeared instead. Where is the consistency that you are speaking about?! Only my Lord Master can make such consistency, not you. The universe is already impotent. It is a creature by Allah

Atheists sometimes deliberately arousing their opponents' tension

احياناً ما يحاول الملاحدة إثارة توتر مناؤيهم

He asked me to calm down as he got the point. How come he puts forth a very serious issue and asks me to calm down?! Dear viewers, these are very controversial issues. The issues that can be currently discussed about creed cannot be easily overlooked

What forces a plane to make a compulsory landing?

ما الذي يجبر طائرة على عمل هبوطاً اضطراري

A plane takes off from Cairo airport should arrive at New York after 7 or 8 hours. Storms and air pockets can delay it an hour or two. It may make compulsory landing in Rabat without completing the flight. Where is the consistency my dear?! He said that it is the nature of the universe Fellow. As long as it is the nature of the universe, it has to have a supervisor sovereign potent god who gives it its nature dear, atheist!

Why wouldn't mountains be exactly the same?!  and water would be exactly the same?!

لماذا تتنوع الجبال و تتنوع الماء بين عذب و مالح

Me: I am going to ask you a simple question Why didn't the nature; your loser teacher, make water all sweet or all salty. Why didn't consistency and stereotyping work out?! Why didn't your god make the soil all muddy?! Why then there are varieties of muddy, desert, yellow and red mountains! If it went stereotyped, why wouldn't mountains be exactly the same?! , and water would be exactly the same.

 My fellow's face began to give color. He was unable to reply .They used to understand that everything is congenial and consistent to the next.

Me: what the next thing was.

Fellow Atheist:  What did I mean?

Me: What is the end of that series?

" I said" Allah."

Me: Are you still on your disbelief?!

I am asking questions that seem difficult for my fellow atheist. In fact they are considered to us the basis of faith. They are the basis of creed.

Me: Why didn't water come all sweet or all salty." If the nature is the creator and the universe is harmonious generates itself by itself. Just answer one question.

 He confessed he was defeated three times.

Fellow Atheist: He pledged to knock me out and never make my viewers see me again.

Attachment and detachment and Supernova

"I neither showed you the creation of heavens and earth nor the creation of themselves"

الرتق و الفتق

ما أشهدتهم خلق السماوات و الأرض و لا خلق أنفسهم و ما كنت متخذ المضلين عضداَ

 Allah as god, how did he begin the creation? I told him that Islam says that the throne was above the water. We have also the issue of the attachment and the detachment. He said that they have in the Latin and western and American culture the issue of "Supernova". He asked me if anyone had watched the attachment and the detachment and Supernova. I told him to ask himself. He refused me to quote from Quran. He was still atheist and not yet believes in Allah's words. I asked him to allow me only that time. Let me break my promise with you this time. I am enthusiastic to say what my Lord said. He refused at first but I insisted. "I neither showed you the creation of heavens and earth nor the creation of themselves" He said that it wasn't the required answer.

Supernova is the creation of heavens and earth

"Didn't the disbelievers see that the heavens and earth were attached and We detached them"

 الإنفجار العظيم هو خلق السماوات و الأرض

أو لم ير الذين كفروا أن السماوات و الأرض كانتا رتقاً ففتقناهما

I said to him that the Supernova is the creation of heavens and earth. The issues that concern us are much more important. Our Almighty Lord does not need for an explosion Man! If our Lord wants something, He will say to It "Be" and It will be with the least effort. Is it necessary for the universe to be exploded in order to have sun and earth and moon? Quran presented this as a trailer for the heart. "Didn't the disbelievers see that the heavens and earth were attached and We detached them" With what? By saying "Be" and it will be. You call for the theory of Supernova

Did the mimicking model of Supernova work out?

هل نجح نموذجهم المحاكي للانفجار العظيم؟

Me: Come with me my fellow! You are trying to defeat me every time.  I want you to make small model for this explosion.

 He praised my readiness.

Me: Professors in Europe and America and Australia universities made something called the regular model of Supernova. Where did they make it?! Where did they execute it in order to make the sun and the earth? Did the regular model mimicking the creation of universe work out? They assume that they went to a certain place and they brought atomic bombs. They did an enormous explosion like Hiroshima. What can it result in? Speak up! What can it result in? Heavens? No .Earth? No

Fellow Atheist: The universe might have started with the great Supernova.

Me: This explosion has to have results. It is not just play in the desert.

He kept silent.

Me: Experiments should have their goals. If we supposed that you are right in what you are saying, that the universe started with that the great explosion of Supernova .The great explosions resulted in the creation of heavens, earth and the creation of human. Your explosion that you proved with it the theory of Supernova What did it do?! What did it create?!

Fellow Atheist: They were just supposing.

 O atheists, " Do you say for Allah what you do not know?!"

أتقولون على الله ما لا تعلمون

The result will be so "If theory." O atheists, " Do you say for Allah what you do not know?!" It is a big issue for you that if we supposed that this explosion already happened it needs fires and atomic energy and. It needs a decision to be occurred. Who is going to give all of this my fellow! If I supposedly accepted the idea of that explosion, that Quran named as Ratq and Fatq" attaching and detaching" and you called it explosion. Who is going to be able to make it happen?!

Unfinished talk

و للحديث بقية

My friend went out confused. I am seeing him now going out defeated frustrated promising to come back tomorrow to resume our debate. We had a very fierce discussion tonight in four important points. They were very important points. Allah has conformed me to advocate for. Allah has conformed me in replying the atheists. I didn't proudly give them evidence from Quran or the Sunah. I cop up with them with what they believe in and with what they take as pretexts. I am very sure all that what I said tonight was only a verbal strife. I strived for the sake of Allah I answered my lord question

"Say walk on earth and see how did the universe begin!" then Allah originates the genesis Verily Allah is able to do every thing

قل سيروا في الأرض فانظروا كيف بدأ الخلق ثم ينشأ النشأة الآخرة إن الله على كل شئ قدير

تحرير و ترجمة: مراد السنجري

Edited and translated by:

Moraad Alsangary